Tag Archives: China

Interview with Jeffrey Goldberg on Kissinger by Judy Woodruff

Judy Woodruff sits in front of image of Henry Kissinger

Judy Woodruff interview with Jeffrey Goldberg of “The Atlantic” 11/21/2016 Screen grab from video at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fgFK084gls

Judy Woodruff, a listed member of the “Council on Foreign Relations“,  interviews Jeffrey Goldberg, the Editor-in-Chief of “The Atlantic” about his interview with Henry Kissinger.

The interviews between Henry Kissinger and Jeffrey Goldberg can be found at these two articles in “The Atlantic”, which were available to read without subscription. Links: Interviewing Henry Kissinger and The Lessons of Henry Kissinger

Link to interview on PBS  Published on Nov 21, 2016
“The Atlantic” magazine’s founding statement promised that the magazine would be “the organ of no party or clique”. They have endorsed only three Presidential candidates since the magazine’s founding in Boston, Massachusetts in 1857. The magazine and editors endorsed Hillary Clinton over fears of Donald Trump being elected.

This election outcome has exposed the veneer of false neutrality and also the deceit of many of the major news sources and reporters in their  coverage and tone. “The Atlantic” is not neutral in their views of the election outcome, but were honest and probably hoping their two-cents might sway some voters. The elites wanted a candidate who would fall in step or was already co-opted or part of their mind hive or was at least malleable to the ongoing power view.

If Hillary Clinton were facing Mitt Romney, or John McCain, or George W. Bush, or, for that matter, any of the leading candidates Trump vanquished in the Republican primaries, we would not have contemplated making this endorsement. [1]

Hillary Clinton, a former Secretary of State under Barack Obama,  stated with pride that “I was very flattered when Henry Kissinger said I ran the State Department better — better than anybody had run it in a long time. So I have an idea of what it’s going to take to make our government work more efficiently.” Hillary of the “We came, we saw, he died.” laughing regime change had been groomed by Henry Kissinger in foreign policy. The Clintons have vacationed with Henry Kissinger and consider him a close personal friend.

Henry Kissinger has a 1973 Nobel Peace prize for his negotiations with Vietnam that involved massive bombings, including into neighboring Cambodia. Many agree with Bernie Sander’s description of Kissinger’s years in the Nixon administration as being responsible for one of the “worst genocides in the history of the world.” Bernie Sanders is “proud” that Kissinger was not his friend.

Meanwhile the Obama Administration granted Henry Kissinger a “Distinguished Public Service Award”. Jeffrey Goldberg did extensive interviews with President Barack Obama that can be found at this link: The Obama Doctrine

Donald Trump did meet with Kissinger in May 2016 during his campaign. Kissinger also recently went to Trump Tower for a meeting with the now President-elect Trump. “President-elect Trump and Dr. Kissinger have known each other for years and had a great meeting. They discussed China, Russia, Iran, the EU and other events and issues around the world” says the Trump transition press release.

For most supporters of Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump’s election was an unexpected shock and also a puzzlement. There has been scrambling to try to understand what the election of Trump might mean for the United States, as well as how his Presidency will affect the direction and plans for shaping the world power structure. Many articles by CFR members expressed their shock and dismay and “what now” view of an impending Trump Presidency.  Dr. Henry Kissinger has had long association with the “Council on Foreign Relations” that began in the mid-1950’s as a young man. He is looking for a path to advising yet another president and to advise others who might get Trump’s ear.

Kissinger in his foreign policy believes in ‘realpolitik’, which is an amoral world view that puts balance and world stability over human rights. This makes his decisions and actions quite controversial. He is still respected and sought for his advice and “long arc” view of the world’s history. Trump expressed more nationalism and country sovereignty with protecting borders and less interest in regime change and openness to new cooperation, as well as changing the more globalist view of trade negotiations. The globalist corporatists are scrambling to co-opt Trump, as they have with so many others.

Judy Woodruff says the “report” is part of an ongoing collaboration between “The Atlantic” and the “PBS NewsHour“.
Note: This is my transcription of Jeffrey Goldberg’s comments with some paraphrasing for brevity of the questions by Judy Woodruff.

Jeffrey Goldberg says…

He (Kissinger) still really is the most influential foreign policy thinker in American in a lot of ways. So in my experience with him there is always something to learn even at the age of 93. Maybe especially at the age of 93 there is always something to learn from him. And so we ended up spending hours talking not just about the Obama Doctrine. We talked about the order of the world currently. We talked a lot about the election. He, like a lot of people, thought Hillary Clinton was going to win. We talked about both candidates. Well, here we are.

What does he think about the legacy of Barack Obama’s foreign policy?

He thinks that the President is too passive in his approach to foreign policy. That the American President has a responsibility to make more order in the world, especially as it relates to the other great powers – Russia and China in particular.

He also thinks the President is too burdened by the alleged sins of the past. Kissinger would think of them more as alleged sins of American behavior during the Cold War and various places including Vietnam and Cambodia. But mainly it has to do with passivity that he sees in the President and a lack of strategic thinking and lack of assertion.

Jeffrey Goldberg of

Jeffrey Goldberg of “The Atlantic” talking on “PBS/Newshour” about Kissinger, Obama and Trump  //  Screen grab from video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fgFK084gls

And obviously the President when I was interviewing him on these subjects Kissinger was almost sort of a specter in the room at various points. The President would talk about the “red line” in Syria, for instance, and talk about how one of the worst reasons to bomb someone is to prove that you are willing to bomb someone.

And I felt as if he were addressing Henry Kissinger and Kissinger’s role in Cambodia using bombing to enhance American credibility at the negotiating table. I found it was a totally fascinating process for me because I was moderating non-chronologically an argument between President Obama and the most important and most controversial foreign policy statesman of the modern era.

And so there was that piece… the other piece of this is that Obama in some ways resembles Henry Kissinger. Kissinger recognizes this to some degree. I think that the President recognizes this to some degree. Neither man particularly obsesses about human rights as a key issue in a way America organizes the relationship with other countries.

Kissinger is still defending the decisions that were made in the early part of the Nixon administration in the Vietnam War. 

I don’t think he’ll stop defending them. He feels as if his decision-making is misunderstood in the country and he wants to make his point.

The interesting thing, if I may, is on Syria he noted to me that John Kerry, Secretary of State, guy who has the job that Henry Kissinger had  – who started his public career as a Vietnam protester arguing to the President that we have to bomb the Assad regime in order to focus their attention on the necessity of negotiation.

And so you see these very interesting echos throughout history, these unsolvable problems, these challenges that are in front of policy makers.

I have a feeling that John Kerry and Barack Obama today have a slightly more understanding for the decisions that Nixon and Kissinger made in Vietnam. They may not agree with them, but they have a little bit more understanding.

Human rights is not at the top of their priorities. 

Well that is one of the interesting things that “Hope and Change” is limited to within American borders in a lot of cases. I don’t think that President Obama would appreciate being called a neo-Henry Kissinger, but Obama’s view is “I, as President, have to manage my relationship with China” and me spending a lot of time lecturing them and ‘punishing them’ for their human rights violations is not going to advance my immediate and long-term national security interests and economic interests.

Talking about President Obama’s approach to China…

First of all, I asked him what grade he gives Obama for the China portfolio. He said B+. I said “That’s a pretty high-grade.” He said “Yes, it’s a B+ on tactics”. It is lower probably on strategy.. on thinking through strategy.”

Kissinger’s focus in global affairs has always been what are the needs of the great powers, how do those needs align with our needs, how do we organize that. The opening to China, of course, is the apogee to this theory.

File:Kissinger Mao.jpg

Henry Kissinger meets with leaders in People’s Republic of China – Zhou Enlai and Mao Zedong (Wikimedia) [2]

Cannot overstate the importance that Kissinger places on China and China / US relations going forwards… 

It was his greatest achievement, it was a world historical achievement.

Kissinger took a secret trip to PRC in 1971, which had not had relation with US in over 20 years. This paved the way for Nixon’s ‘opening to China’ in 1972. This was the beginning of China’s emergence as a world power.

China is going to be the world’s biggest economy, if things keep going the way they are going. Our economic future, the American economic future, is in Asia.

China believes itself to be the most powerful country in the world, the central kingdom. He is saying that Presidents have to have a strategic view to understand how to manage that aspect of China’s relationship without coming to war.

The stability of the entire world depends on a constructive relationship between the United States and China. If that relationship deteriorates, then it is bad for the United States and it is bad for the entire world. It should be the number one priority of American foreign policy, but there is chaos in the world too. American Presidents have to deal with chaos at the same time they are thinking about 10, 20, 30 years out on how they are going to deal with China.

What about Trump?

In our most recent conversation, I said “Do you think that Donald Trump has matured? Do you think he has become smarter or more studious?”

He said “I’m not having that conversation. He’s the President elect of the United States.”

And so, what we should do…is essentially, I’m paraphrasing now, is to wish him well and be available to help him study and help him understand the challenges before him. Obviously Henry Kissinger is a person, even at 93, who doesn’t like to be out of the game. He doesn’t like to be out of the lime-light.

He’s basically saying “I’m here for you Don and I want to give you some sound advice.”

Kissinger met with Trump, who said afterwards ‘ I have tremendous respect for Dr. Kissinger and appreciate him sharing his thoughts with me.’

Kissinger’s basic rule, I think, is to know what you want to do and know what things are unacceptable to you.

You have to know going into the Presidency what things you cannot accept as the leader of the United States. You have to reverse engineer the problem.

What could China do in the south China Sea that is not acceptable to US national security? What could happen in the Middle East that is not acceptable? So first you have to decide what your, to borrow a phrase, what your red lines are and work back from there.

 Does he believe that someone who hasn’t had experience in foreign policy can make a determination like that? 

He was very assiduous about not providing his opinion about where Donald Trump is on the learning curve right now.

I think it is a big universal truth that if you are not willing or able to take on board new information, new analysis, have long involved conversations about these important issues then you are going to be operating at a real deficit.

Much, if not most, of the foreign policy establishment in the United States has not been on board with Donald Trump.

Quite the opposite.

How can he move ahead making decisions that are good for the country when he hasn’t had these relationships before?

Well, he is going have to do something that is out of character with Donald Trump, which is to say bygones be bygones. Pick up the phone to say to Colin Powell, to Madeleine Albright, say to all these people.. “Come in and talk to me about what you know”.

At the lower level he is going to have to be open to the idea that people who disagreed with him, with his candidacy, that they should come back into government and help.

The flip side is that all of these people who were so nervous about Donald Trump becoming President now might have to say to themselves that “Well, Donald Trump IS President, President-elect, and so I better make myself  available to the government because better me than some guy nobody ever heard of with no experience” because these are not unserious challenges. These are life and death issues. You want people who understand the global ISIS threat really well to be sitting  next to Donald Trump when he actually has to make decisions.

 What are you worried about right now? Do you have bad expectations about this administration? 

I’m worried about everything for starters. I’m worried about a willingness to hire the best people. I’m worried about temperament. I’m worried about his attention, his focus. I am not entirely worried that he is actually going to carry out all of the things he said he would do. I’m worried about accidents.

Who do you want in the White House when the CIA director comes over and says the North Koreans now have the ability to deliver one of their nuclear weapons by intercontinental missile to the American mainland. What do you want to do about it, Mister or Madam President?

I want somebody in that job, obviously, who can make reasonable rational decisions and take in the best advice.

End of interview.

Donald Trump is not part of the clique of the globalist elite cabal nor has he been stewed in the foreign policy views of the “Council on Foreign Relations” nor had Henry Kissinger been whispering in his ear about “realpolitik”. Trump also is not a neo-con “idealist” wanting to spread Democracy around the world and instead leaving smoldering chaos behind. Donald Trump is a hope that the new change can be towards yet another “New World Order” that isn’t ruled solely by the globalists. A hope that the United States foreign policy is not deciding its moves decades in advance based largely on the globalist prophesied future of a transcendent China as a next great world power.

Henry Kissinger’s long arc view started the opening up of China in the 1970’s and he still pushes the view that we are handing off power “back” to China and Asia.  The idea is that China was a great power and merely lost for a time before rising again, so we need to be prepared to hand over the golden keys. Does China realize they are being expected to take over the mantle of world shaper? The “so-called” pivot of Obama to the East isn’t far off the mark from where Kissinger would want him to be heading.

There was no mention of other historical foreign policy decisions of Kissinger, such as his involvement in a coup placing the brutal Chilean leader, Pinochet, in power. There is no mention that our involvement in Vietnam was premised on a lie [4] to the American people, which is a method of getting the United States into war to this day.

Why, as Americans, are we still honoring a man with so much blood on his hands? Why would we want Kissinger or his cronies to continue to shape the foreign policy and world order? They sit in their enclaves and ivory towers and plot and manipulate and smirk, but too often in hindsight the world finds out their great schemes are an ongoing disaster. America is used as a tool in their world chess games.

More is at play in the world and needs to be addressed with urgency than whether countries will blow each other up over land or failed trade cooperation. Failure of antibiotics and a global pandemic or a small meteor landing mid-ocean are too rarely discussed. Those would definitely throw a monkey wrench into the globalist prophesies of future power structure. Surprisingly “climate change” didn’t come up in the conversation with Kissinger, as that topic seems to be a constant thrum in media.

File:Reunión Pinochet - Kissinger.jpg

Henry Kissinger with Chilean despot Augusto Pinochet (Wikimedia) [3]

Henry Kissinger says Trump has “absolutely no baggage”

Fareed Zakaria, on CNN’s GPS show, asks Henry Kissinger about impressions of Donald Trump after meeting President-elect Screen grab from video: http://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/11/19/exp-gps-kissinger-on-trump-foreign-policy.cnn

Link to interview video

Fareed Zakaria, a listed member of “The Council on Foreign Relations”, interviews Henry Kissinger on CNN about his opinion of President-elect Donald Trump after their meeting in Trump Tower.

Fareed seems puzzled, as he is ready to start attacking Donald Trump on everything said in the campaign that would challenge their globalist and neo-liberal agenda. Kissinger, always the diplomatic pragmatist, is making the rounds to attempt to get his globalist buddies to calm down and to have an open mind and a “wait and see” attitude. He suggests taking opportunities to advise and educate and direct Donald Trump and not be confrontational, but to remain willing to share wisdom without judgmental tone.

Henry Kissinger is a god-father of globalism and “realpolitik” and he is willing to work with the worst of mankind for his aims and to use his intellect to direct others to his ends, so he is not taken aback nor afraid of Trump. Things would have been so much easier if Hillary Clinton could have been slid into place, as they intended and planned. Life still has some surprises for 93 year old Henry Kissinger. Surprise… it’s Trump!

“What were your impressions from the meeting?”

A determined President-elect who is making the transition from being a campaigner to being national strategist and is trying to inform himself on the various aspects of the current situation.

You’ve seen many President elects come into office…

This President-elect is the most unique that I have experienced in one respect. He has absolutely no baggage. He has no obligations to any particular group because he has become a President on the basis of his own strategy and a program he put before the American public that his competitors did not present. That is a unique advantage.

How will China react…

I’m not here as a spokesman of the President-elect. I am here to answer questions of my impressions. The impact of globalization… not enough attention was paid to the fact that it was bound to have winners and losers and that the losers were bound to try to express themselves in some kind of political reaction. In my view in the present situation one should not insist in nailing him into positions that he had taken in the campaign on which he doesn’t insist. If he insists on them, then of course disagreements will become expressed. But if he develops another program and leaves the question open of what he said in the campaign one should not make that the decisive element.

We should welcome some flip flop? 

 I think we should give him an opportunity to develop the positive objectives that he may have and to discuss those and we’ve gone through too many decades of tearing incompetent administrations apart and it may happen again, but we shouldn’t begin that way and we shouldn’t end up that way either. So that would be my basic view.

End of interview

Donald Trump has come out saying he will not pursue charges against Hillary Clinton [1], which makes common sense to not waste any time or energy and instead to move forward to make positive changes for our country. No doubt this was part of the advice given to him or as a negotiating tool. This makes a good olive branch on Trump’s part to be able to work with Democrats and also the friends of Hillary in media and world leaders. I wouldn’t even be surprised if Hillary Clinton is a backdoor foreign policy adviser to Trump at some point.

The election shouldn’t become about destroying the Clintons, which they did quite well all on their own by their actions of deceit. It would only become a circus and a distraction. The result of the election of Donald Trump should be to move on and work towards “Making America Great Again”. As a country we need this unique President to give us an opportunity to make some real change in the direction and policies of our nation and in the world.

If the ‘lying biased’ liberal media will give Trump a chance and the rabid side of his supporters can be ignored, then the country can focus on the positives that can come from the new unexpected administration. So called “flip flop” is what all Presidents do. Hopefully Trump will focus on important issues and not be distracted.

Kissinger also hopes that Trump will listen because the globalism is there for some good reasons and is also entrenched, so with open mind he can help steer some course through the morass. I have hope for change!

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/cartoons/images/2016/07/20/chip_bok_chip_bok_for_jul_20_2016_5_.jpg

Artist: Chris Bok [2]

Reference:

[1] Trump will not pursue charges on Clinton

[2] Chris Bok’s cartoon: Lock Her Up July 21, 2016

The Art of Interviewing Henry Kissinger on “The Atlantic”

The Art of Interviewing Henry Kissinger

James Fallow interviews Jeffrey Goldberg of “The Atlantic” on his interview with Henry Kissinger

Jeffrey Goldberg, Editor in Chief of

James Fallow interviews Jeffrey Goldberg  11/11/2016    Screengrab from video at: http://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/507182/interviewing-henry-kissinger/

Link to video on “The Atlantic” (*)

One of the things that motivates him is his relentless desire to convince you that he is right.

That his record, if properly understood, is that he behaved well. He defended American interests well. He was not responsible for the perfidious things that his critics claim he’s responsible for.

Discuss the “view of the long arc of evolution and American policy…”

Henry Kissinger does not believe that the moral arc of the universe is long, but bends towards justice. Kissinger believes that one of Obama’s key faults is that he divorces power from diplomacy. But when the President is arguing about credibility that American deterrent credibility is overrated as a concept, as a tool. This is a shot at Kissinger, who of course, in the general understanding of Vietnam came in with Nixon realized that he had to ramp up the war in order to end the war. President Obama finds the logic of that… the logic escapes him, let’s say.

By the way, the single most interesting part of this to me is the historical echo that I heard that John Kerry over the last two years had been going to President Obama and saying “for the sake of our credibility we have to bomb Bashar al Assad. We have to put real military pressure on the Assad regime and that will get them to come to the negotiating table.” And the President is saying “No John, we are not going to do that. Don’t you remember Kissinger?” That counts as heavy.

President Barack Obama and Henry Kissinger sitting at a table

President Obama and Henry Kissinger, former Secretary of State. Photo credit: Dennis Brack/Pool/Sipa Press/secpotusipa.004/1011190005

What if Obama had “involved Kissinger more” in the last 8 years?

There is more Kissinger in Obama than Obama would acknowledge. And there is more Kissinger in Obama than Kissinger probably knows. What Kissinger would have told Obama is that we don’t have yet a proper understanding of where China envisions itself. And they don’t understand us either. He points out in the early 70’s that he went to Beijing secretly. There was nothing to talk about, there was no bilateral relationship, and so all they did was talk about their theories of history.

Now when an American President meets a Chinese leader there is so much to do from cyber to trade to South China Sea to everything that is on the agenda. We are talking about practical stuff all the time, so you might have to carve out a lot more time than you’ve carved out and you have to have serious high end conversations about the way the world is organized because you are the guys who are going to decide how the world is organized.

Kissinger advice to the President might be? Long view towards China…

The reality is that China for 11 of the past 13 centuries has been the most powerful country on earth. It is about to become, at some point in the future, somewhere on par with the United States in terms of global power.

He would say to the President of the United States: understand how they understand the world. Other countries are mere tributaries of the essential kingdom.

You don’t have to accept that as a moral principle. You have to accept that as the reality of their perception of the world. It’s easy and satisfying to say we should spend a lot more time arguing for Tibet (and I agree with that… like we should stand up for what’s right), but this is the realpolitik – the amoral realpolitik – acknowledge their greatness, acknowledge their own understanding of their greatness, and figure out a way to keep the earth stable. And you are the two parties that can keep the earth stable, so deal with it as it is and protect our interest, but not push us towards needless confrontation.

My transcription above from  video at “The Atlantic” interview

(*) The embed of the video isn’t working – use link to see video.

Other reference:

Wikipidea on definition of realpolitik

Realpolitik: a system of politics based on a country’s situation and its needs rather than on ideas about what is morally right and wrong.

Realpolitik of Henry Kissinger in “der Spiegel” in 2013

Wikipedia of Henry Kissinger

Jeffrey Goldberg articles in “The Atlantic”

Jeffrey Goldberg becomes editor-in-chief of “The Atlantic”

 

Working together improves globalization

Globalization is not a zero sum game

Jack Ma gives advice to Donald Trump

Andrew Stevens of CNN asks Jack Ma, Chinese billionaire founder and executive chairman of Alibaba Group, what advice he would give to 2016 President-elect Donald Trump.

Video clip begins at 1:12 (1:12 – 1:41)

Quote from 1:12 – 1:41 in video.

“Focus on trade, improve globalization, and improve the relationship and understanding between China and America. We are in 21st century. Working together improves globalization. Working together improves trade. That will help both countries to create more jobs.”

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“trade deals that caused the manufacturing base to go overseas”

Working together with more trade may improve globalization and create more jobs, but more opportunity and jobs in one country may mean losing an industry and jobs in another.

Katie Razzall of BBC visits Federal Mine Number 1 in the Trump heartland of West Virginia. Voting for Trump was a vote for survival and “the last fight, the last stand” for their way of life in coal country. Many feel that “our voices mean nothing” to the globalists.

Video clip begins at 3:19:

Quote from 3:19 – 3:59 in video.

Mike Caputo “International District 31 Vice President” United Mine Workers of America. Democrat, WV House of Delegates

“Let’s be honest, when someone comes in and promises you that they’re going to open factories up again, and they’re going to close trade deals that caused the manufacturing base to go overseas, and they are going to open coal mines again, and you are hurting then you are going to hang onto that ray of hope. So you know, as they say, the truths is in the pudding. We’ll find out in a couple of years whether that comes to fruition or not.”